When you spend most of the time in the sewer, like the right-wingers do, taking the high road to the gutter is still a step up!
Electability
Submitted by Sisyphus on Mon, 09/24/2007 - 3:24pm.
I've kept one eye on the presidential elections and one candidate has been standing out for me, John Edwards, mostly because of his courageous, detailed and spot on substantive policy positions on issues that resonate with many voters. But for many of us we just want the Dem who will take back the White House. Well electability is another reason to look at Edwards.
Hillary's camp keeps touting her leads in the polls because they make her look stronger and electable. But we all know her negatives and the fact that she'll motivate far more Republicans to vote than Democrats. Now here's a new poll in key states matching possible D and R frontrunners.
MISSOURI 11 Electoral Votes; 2004 results: Bush 53, Kerry 46
Obama 46 Obama 48 Obama 51
Giuliani 44 Thompson 45 Romney 40
Clinton 45 Clinton 48 Clinton 51
Giuliani 48 Thompson 45 Romney 40
Edwards 47 Edwards 50 Edwards 56
Giuliani 42 Thompson 40 Romney 32
OHIO 20 Electoral Votes; 2004 results: Bush 51, Kerry 49
Obama 39 Obama 42 Obama 45
Giuliani 52 Thompson 50 Romney 46
Clinton 47 Clinton 48 Clinton 52
Giuliani 48 Thompson 47 Romney 42
Edwards 47 Edwards 52 Edwards 56
Giuliani 48 Thompson 43 Romney 36
IOWA 7 Electoral Votes; 2004 results: Bush 50, Kerry 49
Obama 50 Obama 51 Obama 51
Giuliani 42 Thompson 41 Romney 41
Clinton 50 Clinton 50 Clinton 50
Giuliani 42 Thompson 44 Romney 43
Edwards 53 Edwards 54 Edwards 54
Giuliani 39 Thompson 37 Romney 38
NEW MEXICO 5 Electoral Votes; 2004 results: Bush 50, Kerry 49
Obama 46 Obama 52 Obama 55
Giuliani 46 Thompson 41 Romney 36
Clinton 51 Clinton 53 Clinton 54
Giuliani 43 Thompson 42 Romney 39
Edwards 48 Edwards 52 Edwards 54
Giuliani 44 Thompson 37 Romney 34
I think you'll see lots of attacks coming against Edwards in the media from unknown sources. I submit they'll originate from sources that don't want Edwards to be the candidate. They won't be fellow Democrats.
Kos correctly points out that early numbers like these must be taken with a grain of salt. http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2007/9/24/132345/176
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Trial Lawyer
The fact that he was a trial lawyer and he sued corporations for millions of dollars in damages is always going to be a huge negative in the minds of pro-corporate Republicans and Conservative moderates.
It is a weakness similar in strength to the weakness that you believe Hillary has. It will be in every attack add, it will be in every conservative political comic and it will be based on lies and misdirections.
Given that, I still support Edwards, but I'm sick of hearing about the Breck Girl, the $400 haircuts, the mansions and etc etc etc that say nothing about the issues and everything about the attackers. I hope he has the energy to fight back, but I think these niggling little twittery attacks are like trying to smack down gnats. No matter how hard you swing they are still there, irritating and refusing to leave.
Hmmm
For now, I disagree that Edwards' weaknesses are as strong as Hilary's. From what I've read, and experienced in my own conversations, hers are way bigger. They hate her at a far deeper level than their hatred of trial lawyers and $400 haircuts. However, should Edwards get the nomination that comparison will be moot - and then I agree that the attacks on Edwards will be huge - although the Republican nominee may have similar negatives.
I'm coming around to Edwards myself, in part because I'm in love with his wife! She's wonderfully smart and refreshing. Her health is certainly a worry though.
Thanks Sparkie
I agree that Edwards $400 haircut will not motivate Republicans to get up to go vote against him. Since I am a lawyer who occasionally goes to trial it hard for me to be objective on that score. Certainly I feel that that the demonization my group has undergone is unfair in many respects and I endeavor to correct people's misconceptions about my profession regularly. After all determinations at trial are made not by the lawyers but by twelve people just like you. There are inequities inherent in the system, like its cost, but overall I'd match it against any on the planet.
In Edwards defense, the jury awarded money damages to his clients from insurance companies. In the grander scheme of things I'd wager the reputation of a single trial attorney against that of the insurance industry anyday.
Could Not Agree More
You're exactly right - lawyers must be advocates for their clients, but they don't decide cases. Juries made up of regular folks do. (Although I'm not so sure I'd characterize them as "just like me" in every case. Wouldn't it be nice if Idaho voters were just like me? We'd live in a different world for sure.)
I do believe, however, that even people who disagree with my politics have the capacity to be reasonable, especially when confronted with facts about how an insurance company screwed yet another of its insureds. Yes, Edwards has made a lot of money as a damn good trial lawyer. But in many cases he also recovered for his clients money they were entitled to from insurance companies who I have no doubt in many circumstances were maliciously refusing to pay claims they were contractually obligated to pay.
reasonable?
Ok, lets just take a look at the "reasonable" capability of people on the other side of the aisle before making such a claim:
God caused 9/11 because of homosexuals.
God caused 9/11 because of Bill Clinton.
Saddam was in on 9/11.
God caused the Katrina floods because he didn't like New Orleans.
Hillary Clinton had her lesbian lover murder Vince Foster.
Global Climate change is a fraud to make money.
Creationism should be taught in our schools.
Want me to go on? Want me to find links about how "reasonable" people are from the other side of the aisle?
You can tell them all day long about how great Edwards is, how he funded the life continuing efforts for a little girl whose guts were ripped out of her body by a known malfunction, about how it isn't a crime to be a decent looking guy, or how it is ok to sit down with the leader of a foreign country and get his take on the state of the world.
No matter how nicely you spell it out, no matter how broad you cast your information to the winds, there are too many that will twist it, that will ignore it and that will only be hardened against Edwards just because you tried to explain it to them.
These are the people that voted for Dumbya because they thought he would be a great guy to go drink a beer with. Reason is NOT a strong point for the moderate Republican voter. It is poison to a hard right winger.
Many are victims
of the transformation of media. Misinformation flows through talking heads meant to appear reasonable and whom they choose to believe. Of course we can reach out to them. This is why we're here.
And I just knew she had Foster killed.
Hmmmm
I recently heard a woman who lives in Gooding complain that "Mexicans" are inconsiderate because so many of them shop together that they take up all the aisle space. Which of course means that one particular family was in her way while shopping - she then attributed that rude-ness to every person from Mexico, at least those who live in Gooding. I mentioned that Tim McVeigh was arguably a terrorist - so that must mean white males are terrorists? That didn't go over real well.
Get my point?
I agree that many from "the other side of the aisle" hold unreasonable beliefs. But they don't have the monopoly on unreasonableness, nor are they all unreasonable. Making broad generalizations like that about an entire group of people is just wrong. And counter-productive.
The call me Ismael
Then call me wrong, but I will never deal with a right-wing Republican if I don't have to. I won't reach across when their points they make are as dumb as dirt, or as dumb as Adam, whichever is smarter at that moment.
Then you're wrong - at least some of the time
This English major is curious why you wrote "call me Ismael" (and I'm assuming you mean "Ishmael" instead since that line is spoken by the character Ishmael in the opening paragraph of Melville's Moby Dick). Do you identify w/ Ishmael in relation to your loathing of right-wing Republicans?
spelling error
Actually, it was meant as a joke.
If you want to call me wrong, then call me wrong. However after spending the last few years defending my anti-war stance, defending evolution, defending science and calling out right-wing idiots on their lies, I see no reason for me to personally reach across an aisle that broadens by the day.
I'm probably wrong in doing so, but I hate those that have taken America down this path and continue to defend their earlier decisions based on nothing more than lies and misinformation. I see no reason to forgive them for their transgressions until such time as they can apologize and start working on repairing the damage they have caused.
I've extended my hand a few times and drawn back a bloody stump. No more, I'm done with those people.
OK - truce
Generally, the Ishmael character is viewed as one isolated or exiled in a variety of ways, which was somewhat related to your point. I was just interested - didn't mean to imply you were dumb.
And of course I'll allow you your experience with the right-wing idiots you've encountered. I've certainly had those experiences myself and can easily let myself go on a rant. It's very satisfying sometimes. However, I try (often unsuccessfully) to avoid letting myself get into an "us" vs. "them" mindset. It doesn't help me much. And you know what some psychologists say - those things we find ourselves loathing in others are usually those things we also hate about ourselves ... I wonder just how "done" with those people you really are...? :)
Dennis Mansfield
If you had to name a historic right-wing nut from Idaho, many people would name Dennis Mansfield, right?
So as an anti-thesis to my point of hating all right wingers, I'm actually friends with him and I even respect much of what he's accomplished recently.
Of course, he's no longer a right wing nut, but most don't know that.